Trading Shots: Where's the line between redemption and exploitation?

Jason “Mayhem” Miller

In this week’s Trading Shots, MMAjunkie columnist Ben Fowlkesand retired UFC/WEC fighter Danny Downes discuss the returns of troubled fighters like Jason Miller and Chris Leben, and the complicated questions that come with them.

Fowlkes: Danny, I’m distressed. It began with the news that Bellator had signed 35-year-old UFC veteran Chris Leben, who appeared to have retired at the right time, which is to say right when the beatings were piling up and he seemed to have had enough.

Then I heard that something called Venator FC had signed 35-year-old “Mayhem” Miller, who kind of fell off the MMA map after his release from the UFC, and whose erratic behavior since has resulted in multiple arrests and at least one police standoff.

Obviously, we want people to be able to make their own choices and earn a living and all that, but does this not feel, I don’t know, vaguely exploitative? Like taking people at vulnerable times in their lives and throwing them into legitimately dangerous situations in hope of a profit? Or am I just being a dumb, paternalistic writer here?

Downes: Why not both? I understand your trepidation about Leben and Miller fighting again, but without getting too Marxist here, isn’t every fight a certain form of exploitation? We’ve all agreed that MMA isn’t the healthiest thing for you, so why decide that 35 is the cut-off? Say what you want about the two of them, they certainly have a name and can still maintain a certain following.

Is this any different than watching Ken Shamrock fight? We’re OK with allowing CM Punk to (eventually) fight. He’s 37, has a history of injuries and no formal fight training until recently. That sounds much more dangerous than allowing a couple UFC veterans to compete. What’s Da-Da 5000 been up to since his last fight in 2011?

I guess I wonder how much of your concern stems from what’s happening in Miller and Leben’s private lives. If Mayhem were still on MTV goofing around and not in the police blotter, would you still have a problem? You see Miller struggling for whatever reason to be a law-abiding adult, and I assume you think fighting could accelerate this. Outside the physical concerns, giving him a stage to be even more audacious could lead to greater problems. Does that sound about right?

Also, how much of this has to do with success? If Leben had finished his career on a four-fight winning streak and then taken some time off, would you support that? Georges St-Pierre was one of the best fighters in the world, so what if he comes back? He’s 34 and has sustained a lot of trauma.

Fighting is inherently destructive. I’m not saying we should get rid of commissions and let anyone who wants to step in a cage fight, but where do we draw the line?

Fowlkes: Let me clarify here that my concerns about Leben and Miller have almost nothing to do with their ages. Lots of guys could still be fit to fight in their mid-30s and beyond. I’m just not sure they are those guys, and yes, it’s their behavior outside the cage that makes me wonder.

Leben was in jail just a few months ago, and on some pretty serious charges, but at least he can claim to have sobered up and pulled his life together.

Miller, on the other hand, seems still stuck in a tailspin. He was recently arrested for driving under the influence. Before that came a series of domestic violence charges, plus that bizarre appearance on HBO’s “Real Sports.” If he’s not a man in the grips of a personal crisis, he’s doing a really good imitation of one.

Also, if I’m being honest, part of my concern stems from the fact that I know both these guys a little bit, and I like them both – especially Miller. Before he spun out of control, he always seemed to me like one of the more interesting and introspective fighters out there. When I see him on camera now, I can see that guy still in there somewhere. He’s just not the one manning the controls anymore.

That’s worrisome, and I seriously doubt that a cage fight is the thing he needs to get his life back on track right now. It seems more likely that he’s just doing it for the money. I suspect the same might be true for Leben, though at least he seems to be riding a more positive wave at the moment.

There’s also the issue of damage. Leben and Miller were both known as guys who could take plenty of it, and that comes with a cost. Now they’re signing up for more, and I don’t see how it can lead to anything good. I’m not saying I want to see them put on an MMA no-fly list. They are adults, after all, and they get to make their own decisions. If they want to fight, they can. But I can’t say I’d feel good about watching it.

Downes: As I write this, I’m sitting on a plane from San Diego to Kansas City. And as I squeeze into my middle seat (I really need to remember to check-in for my Southwest flights), between a Kenny Loggins look-alike and a woman with too much perfume, I see a man struggling with the overhead container. His carry-on is far too large to fit, but he keeps slamming and slamming the door despite receiving the same result. Finally, a flight attendant comes over to talk sense to him. While initially hesitant, he relents and lets them check his bag.

Fighters are a lot like this man. They keep trying and trying to make something click when there’s no way it can happen. Sometimes it’s to chase a title shot that never came. Other times it’s to chase the rush of competition and the feeling of being a “somebody” again. When you’re a fighter and your entire identity is wrapped up in being one, what do you do once you stop? What’s a fighter that doesn’t fight anymore?

Sure, it would be great if we could lead them by the hand and tell them to give it up, but that’s not our choice. It’s something that they have to decide on their own.

Also, I don’t know if I’d so easily dismiss “just doing it for the money.” Money is a necessary aspect of life and a lot of fighters don’t have other means of earning it. Some of them may be too proud to do what some would call “menial” work, but what other avenues are there? If you’ve been fighting for the better part of a couple decades, there’s not a lot to put on the resume.

As for your final point, I think it’s fine to say you don’t feel comfortable watching it. Too often in MMA people want to argue that everything is allowed, as if we aren’t allowed to draw a line somewhere. We should be able to set boundaries. The question is, when will we decide to set it for someone else? Should we? Where does personal freedom end and being an enabler to personal destruction begin?

Fowlkes: All fair points. And if fighters were making a ton of money every time they stepped in the cage, I could more easily understand just doing it for the money. But wages being what they are in MMA, doing it for the money most often means buying yourself another six months or so, and maybe at great cost.

Again though, you’re right. It’s their choice. I guess I’d just like to feel like the guys making that choice are doing so with a clear-headed appreciation of their own circumstances. Maybe Leben is doing that. I hope he is. Miller, I’m more worried about.

I guess in the end it doesn’t matter what I think, though. In this sport, as long as there’s someone, somewhere willing to pay you to fight, and someone willing to pay that person to watch, you can keep doing it whether it’s a good idea or not. That might be a triumph for personal liberty. It might also be a recipe for disaster.

Downes: I understand what you mean about money, but by that reasoning you could argue that anyone, regardless of age, shouldn’t fight. Fighters choose to compete, but they don’t do it alone. Commissions approve them, promoters pay them, and fans watch them. We have personal liberty here too. We can tune in or not.

Ben Fowlkes is MMAjunkie and USA TODAY’s MMA columnist. Danny Downes, a retired UFC and WEC fighter, is an MMAjunkie contributor who also writes for UFC.com and UFC 360. Follow them on twitter at @benfowlkesMMA and @dannyboydownes.