Trading Shots: Downes and Fowlkes on Rousey's win and 'Cyborg's' challenge

In this week’s Trading Shots, MMAjunkie columnist Ben Fowlkes goes head-to-head with former UFC/WEC fighter Danny Downes over Ronda Rousey’s win against Sara McMann, and what it means for the supposed “biggest star” of MMA.

Fowlkes: At the risk of spending another Sunday discussing the notion of “intelligent defense” with you, I guess we’ve got to start by weighing in on the stoppage in Saturday’s Ronda Rousey vs. Sara McMann UFC 170 headliner. Personally, I thought it was a little quick. I also found myself thinking, Come on, it’s a title fight! As if the rules for stoppages should change because of that. At the same time though, don’t they? Haven’t they, at least once or twice?

Downes: In a week where we’ve already discussed the unwritten rules of MMA, it feels like this one should be up there. An example that came to my mind of a ref letting a title fight go was Frankie Edgar vs. Gray Maynard (or any Frankie Edgar title fight, for that matter). Then again, for every Edgar/Maynard, we have one like Mike Pyle vs. T.J. Waldburger, which went on far too long.

I know there are people out there who will argue that since the rules for title fights and non-title fights are the same (except for the five rounds vs. three rounds thing), the rules should be enforced the same. That may sound nice in theory, but it ignores the bigger picture. When there’s more on the line, fighters should be given a little more leeway to see if they’ll work out of a bad position. Now this is where I say, “Referees have the hardest job in the business! They try their best, etc.” But a hard job doesn’t excuse oneself from criticism. Professional athletes have extremely hard jobs, and we criticize them regularly.

Besides the disappointing finish, what do you think about Rousey’s latest title defense, Ben? Was it another performance worthy of “the biggest star in MMA?”

Fowlkes: Calling Rousey the biggest star in MMA reminds me of the “most photographed barn in America” from Don DeLillo’s novel “White Noise.” Tourists come from all over to see this barn, advertised on roadside signs, and of course they take their own pictures of it once they get there. This is why it’s the most photographed barn in America. People take photos of it because so many other people have taken photos of it, and the reason those people took photos is because other people took photos. “They are taking pictures of taking pictures,” one character says. That’s kind of how it is with Rousey these days, who is a star because she’s a star.

That’s not completely true. She’s also really good, though it’s becoming difficult to tell how good because her competition seems incapable of pushing her far enough to find out. I think that’s what was disappointing about the stoppage here. The enormity of the hype surrounding Rousey makes us want to see her do something spectacular, something that fits with the Legend of Ronda. If she armbars someone, that works. That feeds into the “I can’t believe she did it again!” aspect of her story.

But if she just knees McMann in the liver until she falls down, and if the fight is stopped as McMann is in the process of getting up, it’s a little anticlimactic. We feel like we’re owed more. How can she be a star all by herself? The more challengers she rolls through, the more it makes women’s MMA look like a one-woman show, which seems unsustainable to me. Rousey needs a counterpart. She needs a rival, someone to star opposite her. She had that with Tate, but that’s over with now. Cat Zingano still deserves the shot, but I guess the question is, even if that happens, is it just a stopover? Aren’t we all just sitting around waiting for this fight with Cristiane Justino to materialize?

Downes: You could make arguments for McMann, Zingano and (based on the post-UFC 170 broadcast) Alexis Davis as possible opponents. Whatever happens, we know that Rousey is going to go away for awhile. We knew that going into the fight, so maybe the disappointment is heightened by the fact that she didn’t get to put a stamp on the victory. Then again, maybe it will be a good thing that she’s taking a break. There’s no doubt that she’s a star, but perhaps the 56-day turnaround was just too soon to really get any momentum going.

All that aside, beside the few outliers angling for Holly Holm, I think the “Cyborg” fight is the only one that fans truly would want to see. And while the possibility is closer than it’s ever been, it’s by no means a sure thing. At first, most people wanted the fight because they wanted to see Justino lose. Then the motivations shifted. People wanted to see Rousey humbled. Now, while I’m sure there are fans that want the fight just to see whomever they dislike more get beat up worse, I actually think that the current motivations are a bit more noble. They want to see Rousey challenged, and Justino is the only one who really fits the bill. Look at Saturday’s fight between No. 3 ranked Alexis Davis and No. 5 Jessica Eye. They had a solid overall fight, but did you really think that either one of them could defeat the champion? Name another division where that happens?

There have been dominant champions in every division, but the gap between Rousey and her challengers appears to be much deeper. The occasional blowout can be entertaining. Even pure dominance can be enjoyable, but you can only watch that so often. It’s one thing to watch an NBA team get blown out by 30 points, but there’s a different level of uncomfortableness when it comes to MMA. Can there be such a thing as too good? Does athletic dominance eventually equate to viewer apathy?

Fowlkes: I’ll admit that as I watched Davis and Eye I thought, a) these two are pretty evenly matched, and b) they’d both get absolutely smashed by Rousey. Zingano would be tougher, though it’s asking a lot of her to come back from knee surgery and personal tragedy to challenge for the title in her first fight in more than a year. Holm presents an interesting test of Rousey’s striking skills, but right now there’s no reason to think she could stay upright long enough to do much. “Cyborg” is where the glory lies. She’s big and strong enough that she won’t get bullied by Rousey (assuming the weight cut doesn’t take too much out of her), experienced enough that she won’t be awed by the moment, and dangerous enough to actually put the champ in some serious peril.

And you’re right, those are more noble reasons for wanting to put the fight together. It’s not some over-hyped personal rivalry (or at least it’s not only that, even if you know the UFC will squeeze all it can out of that angle as well). It’s an interesting match-up purely for athletic reasons, which is something women’s MMA needs. It will also force the UFC to lock its golden goose in the same cage as a very capable butcher, and you can imagine that some fans will enjoy seeing Dana White sweat over that even as he screams that he’s TOTALLY NOT WORRIED, YOU [EXPLETIVES]!

For all these reasons, I feel like this is the fight we’re going to see eventually, or else it’s the fight we’re going to forever complain about not seeing. It’s not just that Rousey’s too good. It’s that no one else is good enough to show us how good she is. And wouldn’t that be the biggest letdown, if we never found out? Because you know Rousey won’t stick around this crazy, messed-up sport forever. And once she’s gone, then what?

Downes: Lots of fighters talk about getting out of the game early. Then a few more years go by and they’re in the same exact place. Rousey has more options than most at this stage, but I’ll believe it when I see it. We love talking about legacy, especially when it comes to champions. For some time, the only ones that it really applied to were Anderson Silva and Georges St-Pierre. Now, though, I think you could add Rousey to that mix. Debate the motivations all you want, but she played an instrumental role in bringing women’s MMA to the biggest fighting organization in the world. She’s the first (and only) women’s champion the UFC has ever had. Even if she goes to Hollywood, thrives, and decides to give up that cage fighting business once and for all, she’s earned that right.

I know it’s hard to divorce Ronda Rousey from the larger WMMA profile as a whole, but this break allows us to do that. I can’t answer your question, but the next six months or so will provide us with one. Through no fault of her own, Rousey casts a shadow over the division. Everything that happens is viewed in relation to her. That is a testament to her impact on the sport, but like you said earlier, it’s hard to build something predicated upon one individual. If the “Cyborg” fight never comes to fruition, we may feel like we were cheated out of something special. The “Rowdy Era” can’t last forever, but I think we can all agree that we’re not ready for it to end just yet.

For complete coverage of UFC 170, stay tuned to the UFC Events section of the site.

Ben Fowlkes is MMAjunkie and USA TODAY’s MMA columnist. Danny Downes, a retired UFC and WEC fighter, is an MMAjunkie contributor who also writes for UFC.com and UFC 360. Follow them on twitter at @benfowlkesMMA and @dannyboydownes.