Afromowitz, the director of communications, worked as former Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker’s right-hand man during the promotion’s evolution from regional kickboxing circuit to premium cable staple with network television exposure.
Today, two of the promotion’s former champions, welterweight Nick Diaz and heavyweight Alistair Overeem, have moved on, with the potential of a third, light heavyweight Dan Henderson, following suit. Strikeforce faces being merged into the UFC once a television contract between the promotion and Showtime expires in 2012 seems a forgone conclusion, though there are options to extend.
“I think [Coker] was promised that they were going to keep it around and build it and make it like an AFC to the UFC’s NFC,” Afromowitz said. “And he wanted to believe that. We all did. I wanted to believe it, too, but that quickly changed.”
Two weeks after Zuffa purchased Strikeforce, the entire front office staff, sans Coker, was cut loose. In this Aug. 17 interview on the Sherdog Radio Network’s “Beatdown” program, Afromowitz spoke candidly with Jack Encarnacao about the behind-the-scenes reality of Strikeforce’s journey from growing MMA brand to UFC property.
Afromowitz: In the end, I’m not going to lie, it was disappointing.
Not to toot my own horn, but, really, I was one of the guys that
helped build Strikeforce. There were only, like, four of us to
start with when we started out, and even when we were at our peak,
there was only about 12 of us. When it was taken over, people said
that, ‘Oh, we’re not looking to replace you; we want you to excel
at your job and stay.” And then that quickly changed. I had a bad
feeling when it was acquired that that was going to happen, but
certain people asked me to have an open mind and listen. I did, and
I went to the meetings and I tried it out, and it seemed workable
from my end. And then they ... all of a sudden, the tone quickly
changed, and they, really, just one-by-one, they let us all go. And
so now all there is left is Scott and his assistant. It’s
unfortunate. You work so hard to build something. It was a part of
my life, a big part of my life. I worked day-in, day-out, weekends,
nights. It was exciting. I liked the work, otherwise I wouldn’t be
able to do it at the pace that I was doing it. So it sucks; it
hurts. I guess from their perspective, they did what they had to
do. It’s their business, so who am I to tell them how to run their
business? But I would have appreciated some more respect.
Afromowitz: I think the writing’s on the wall: they want one brand.
It’s, like, I hope to see them just get rid of it. It’s just ...
it’s a memory now. And I’m being honest with you; I think it would
be better for them. I don’t even want to think about it, see it.
It’s on my mind still, but it’s probably better, from my
perspective, if it just goes away. Let them do what they’re going
to do. Already, there’s at least one champ -- Nick [Diaz], he
vacated the belt. We saw what [former Strikeforce heavyweight
champion] Alistair [Overeem] did, but, apparently, he’s back in
talks. I don’t know where that’s going to go. So there’s one or two
champions who have vacated their belts. I don’t know what they’re
going to do. It just doesn’t seem to make sense, from the way their
business model [works], to keep Strikeforce around. It seems they
want one brand. Whatever happens, happens.
Afromowitz: No, absolutely not. I mean, it was his baby. The day
[he sold it] we talked about it, and he said it felt like he lost a
kid; he didn’t want to sell Strikeforce. It was part of his life.
It wasn’t just about money. It was like something you love to do;
you wake up for it every morning. He didn’t want to sell
Strikeforce anymore than I wanted it to be sold. He was basically
told it was being sold.
Afromowitz: Well, it’s a long story. There’s a lot of things. For
legal reasons, I probably can’t go all into it. There’s a number of
things, a number of things. And maybe they just hit their
threshold, their pain threshold. And it was understandable. They’re
businesspeople, and the numbers didn’t make sense at that point.
So, in the end, that’s why they got out. But there’s always things
happening behind the scenes that no one sees, [that] the public
isn’t privy to. So there’s a lot of mechanisms that triggered. One
thing led to another to another to another; it was all being in
line to sell. That’s it in a nutshell. The numbers didn’t make
sense. It wasn’t producing what it needed to, and it was time to
get out.
Afromowitz: I agree with that. When they first signed on, there was
no sign of the CBS and Showtime deal being available a year later.
That was totally ... that was not foreseen at all. So when that
happened, it changed the entire landscape of the business. And, so,
that right there was a big plunge. They took the risk. And I feel
like they were -- we were -- one step away from some big things
financially. I think we were one step away. The singing of Fedor
[Emelianenko] from a brand perspective was huge. And the
heavyweight tournament -- there was so much heat on it when we
first announced it. We were one step away, I feel like, from making
a big, big dent, and that step didn’t happen.
Afromowitz: I believe so. It’s not so much that [it was] more than
they could afford but more than, let’s say, the UFC had to pay
them. Because [the] UFC is obviously the bigger brand, so you have
to look at the package; a fighter is looking at a package. He might
be willing to take a little less money from [the] UFC than he would
from Strikeforce, because there’s more eyeballs on the UFC than
there were for Strikeforce. So Strikeforce might have to pay up for
the same fighter.
Afromowitz: I can’t go into details for obvious reasons, but I
think you get the picture. I think it was a deal that made it very
difficult to be profitable from. So getting Fedor from a branding
perspective was huge, and that was a risk that was, at the time,
necessary to take. That was the biggest acquisition we had made as
a company. Right away, signing Fedor put our company, put
Strikeforce, in that many more households. Just the name
Strikeforce -- it got out there. The same [thing happened] with
Herschel
Walker, signing Herschel Walker. Those are ... there are
certain names that when you attach yourself to, it just elevates
your brand and it takes things to new level. And, so, it’s an
investment that, at the time, seemed like an investment that was
necessary.
Afromowitz: You know, what’s funny is somebody said to me not too
long ago, ‘You are never going to make money with Fedor.’ He said
that to me because he thought that he understood the mentality
behind Fedor’s management. He said, ‘You are never going to make
money with them.’ [He] said that straight out to me. There’s a lot
of different thoughts out there, and I think maybe it wasn’t the
right move, but everybody wanted it at the time. And when we did
it, it sure felt good. But it could have been part of the
undoing.
Afromowitz: The thing with co-promotion: it really should just be
about the fighters; it shouldn’t be about the league. And that’s
something that Scott has always believed in, and that’s why you
never really saw him out there aggressively speaking. He was up
there on the dais during press conferences, but, to him, it was
always about the fighter. And I believe the same way. That’s the
way it’s been in boxing, and then people could respond to that [by]
saying, ‘Well, look at boxing.’ Well, boxing had other problems,
but you know what? As far as fighters go, look at the top boxers.
[They] make a lot more money than the top MMA fighters, and that’s
for a reason. Boxing had its own problems, but as far as fighters
becoming household names, there’s never been a shortage of those
[in boxing]. Now, yeah, it’s been marred by a lot of problems, but
like I said, still the biggest boxers make a lot more than the
biggest MMA fighters. And the focus is on them.
Afromowitz: Mayhem hurt our business, in the end, by going into the
cage, and, you know, Gilbert [Melendez] punching him in the face
didn’t help; and then an all-out riot started. It hurt the
business. It wasn’t good. We were a hair away from having a great
show, and then the fights weren’t as great as people thought. But
Dan [Henderson’s] fight with Jake started out as a good fight, and
then it got slower and slower, the pace, and then of course the
brawl started. Things quickly went downhill.
Afromowitz: It’s not untrue. CBS is a public company; they have a
lot on the line, so it was understandable that they turtled up. At
the same time, brawls happen in all sports. What’s funny is we were
backstage actually watching the fight between Jake and Dan, and on
the screen in the room we were in backstage, they were showing a
brawl from earlier in the night. I think it was a Celtics game; it
was an NBA game. So, you know, it’s kind of funny looking back on
it. But brawls happen in any professional sport. Emotions get high.
But because of a certain stigma attached to MMA, it’s like it
doesn’t need a brawl after a fight on top of that and guys kicking
a guy while he’s down on the ground. It just didn’t need any more
bad press. It’s already at a handicap, so to speak. So in the
general public’s eyes ... I mean, more and more people are learning
otherwise, but still, when it gets up there [through] the chain of
command at CBS, I’m sure they did not appreciate that. And it’s
understandable.
Afromowitz: The relationship was friendly. It was dialogue, but
nothing came to fruition. And, you know, here we are today, so [the
dialogue] was nothing to speak of really. I appreciate the
opportunity those guys gave us. They were real supportive; it was
really good working with hem. They had a great team. I mean [CBS
Senior Executive Vice President) Kelly Kahl is a huge supporter of
MMA, and it’s always great to work with a top-level executive who’s
passionate about the sport that we’re in, especially at a major
network. So, it is what it is. It happens, and you can’t blame them
for turtling up right after the fight. They have a lot on the
line.
Afromowitz: Oh, yeah. I remember where I was when we had first
announced the deal with Showtime. I had just gotten off a plane and
gone to visit some relatives in Florida, and I had to pull over and
go to a Starbucks to get online and push out the announcement. So,
I mean, there’s a lot of great memories. It was a great time and,
hopefully, we can do it again someday.
Afromowitz: He was my mentor -- he gave me an opportunity -- so
that’s something I’ll never forget. But, you know, going forward,
we’ll see. Honestly, I don’t speak to him as much now. He’s busy on
the road, I guess, with Strikeforce. We used to talk almost every
day; sometimes, we’d talk 10 times a day. We were in constant
communication. We had a business going. So now, I mean, it’s sad
that that came to an end. I always looked up to him, looked at him,
like, it got to the point where he was like family. But we’ll see
what happens. I hope that it all ends well.
Afromowitz: I think [Coker] was hopeful, and part of it probably
was he had no other options than to be hopeful. He could either be
depressed about it or be hopeful. I think he was promised that they
were going to keep it around and build [it] and make it like an AFC
to the UFC’s NFC. And he wanted to believe that, we all did. I
wanted to believe it, too, but that quickly changed. He started
Strikeforce in the 90s, so it is like a baby to him. And, so, it’s
not surprising that he wanted to believe that it would stay around.
And, you know, maybe it will for a little while. Maybe it will. I
mean, if [the UFC does] this Fox deal, there’s going to be a lot
more programming, a demand for programming. Maybe they would do
something with Strikeforce, place it somewhere. I don’t know. I
just see it, if they want one brand. It seems that’s always been
their goal, which, from their perspective, it makes sense. Why run
two leagues? Unless you’re using one ... to keep others out. It
doesn’t seem like they’re going to position Strikeforce that way,
so, in that case, what’s the case for keeping it around?
Afromowitz: Yeah. I mean, I can’t obviously go into the
details.
Afromowitz: I shouldn’t go into details. I can’t really for legal
reasons.
Afromowitz: I don’t think there’s anyway they would do that,
because the pay-per-view is where the money is. As far as getting
the ratings, the network should ... if they expect strong ratings,
then they should support it with their other programming and their
other assets. Look, there’s no shortage of fighters, especially
now, at Zuffa’s disposal. There’s plenty that they can market using
the Fox platform and build them up into ratings generators without
sacrificing their pay-per-view buys.
Afromowitz: Oh, I do. I see pressure to deliver ratings, but I
think you can deliver ratings without necessarily putting the big,
big fights on [Fox]. I think there’s fighters right underneath
those guys, and you can stack cards without putting, let’s say, the
Brock Lesnars on. Look, the pay-per-view is where the big, big
money is. Everyone knows that in the fight game.
Afromowitz: For me, personally, I think the first CBS fight; that
was ... a huge rating and having Fedor headline that show. I guess
putting him on CBS; that was packaged and that was a huge point in
time for us. Plus, the heavyweight tournament was very big. So, I
think those two. The Fedor-Brett
Rogers fight was a great time. That was when we were just
running on pure momentum. It was a great time. And the heavyweight
tournament did come at the end, and, so, it was a little -- the
memories won’t be as great as they were from the first CBS fight.
It was a great night. The energy in the arena was incredible. It
was a great comeback, dramatic ending and it delivered huge
ratings, so it was a great night. I went home really happy.
Afromowitz: Sure, for sure. I definitely think his stock plummeted,
but I’m not taking anything away from his legacy. He is who he is,
and he had an incredible career. But, at that point in time, yes,
his stock, sure, like anyone else, two straight losses, it
dropped.
Afromowitz: For sure. I think there was a bittersweet feeling
amongst certain people in certain circles. He had a great career,
but it was a tough deal to swallow -- the whole Fedor deal. Him
losing two in a row ... maybe it was for the best, from a business
standpoint of course. Co-promoting is tough; there’s a lot of
different interests at hand. It’s tough enough to promote a fight
on your own. Then, when you have a partner, it’s a tougher
business.
Afromowitz: My reaction was, ‘Good, you wouldn’t want somebody like
that.’ It’s, like, I worked really hard to do my part in this
company and make these fighters, build their names, build their
brands. And if they’re not appreciative and there’s a better deal
out there, then let them go.
Afromowitz: I think there were other guys that we could have put in
his place. Gilbert [Melendez] is a guy who puts on incredible
fights, but it was just the right time, right place for [Shields]
to fight Dan Henderson on CBS. So that’s why I think that happened,
but [there were] fighters who were more charismatic than him, more
exciting and [had] more exciting styles of fighting than him, so I
think him fighting Dan Henderson on CBS was just circumstantial.
But there are fighters that we had under our umbrella who we could
have pushed just as easily.
Afromowitz: That’s a good point. No, it wasn’t a conscientious
effort. We wanted to make the most exciting fights and the fights
that made the most sense in terms of title fights, and really I
don’t think -- when you look at our 170-pound roster -- I don’t
think there is really anyone really qualified to do what you were
talking about. There were no high-level, highly accomplished
wrestlers in our 170-pound division. You have Tyron
Woodley, who now is getting to that point where he’s in line
for a title, but back then he wasn’t. And, so, I don’t think there
was anyone that fits that bill. Nick ... there were certain
opponents for Nick and it just so happened that they were guys that
wanted to swing it out, like K.J. Noons,
[Evangelista] “Cyborg” [Santos], Frank
Shamrock and [Marius] Zaromskis. It just so happened that [in]
those the styles matched up that way.
Afromowitz: Honestly, I think it was all Nick’s doing, really, in
his case. But he actually became bigger because he didn’t do press,
he didn’t do media. He’s not a guy wants to play ball in that
respect. He doesn’t do the media stuff, and it was frustrating
working with him, I’m going to be honest. But, he became ... he
came into his own and he put together a slew of wins. He fought
lights out in Strikeforce, and, for that reason and for being an
elusive character, he became bigger. He really created his own
brand, whether it was intentional or not.
Afromowitz: No, no, no, no. I wouldn’t take that job. He just
doesn’t like it. It’s the way he is, for whatever reason. Maybe
he’s shy, maybe, I don’t know. He doesn’t like that part of the
business, so that’s going to be a tough one. I would like to watch
the crew try to follow him around. That would be entertaining, but
I wouldn’t want to be on that crew because that would be tough for
them.
Afromowitz: Wasn’t it amazing, in a male-dominated sport, that that
one women’s fight broke the all-time viewership record on Showtime
for MMA? I think about that still. I think that I wasn’t surprised
to not see Gina come back. She had some opportunities in Hollywood.
I remember watching Gina for the first time during our K-1 days.
She was on the undercard. This was back in 2005, I think, and I
could see what potential she had as an athlete. I didn’t even know
who her father was; I didn’t realize how he was an ex-[Dallas]
Cowboys quarterback, so she had those incredible genetics. I just
saw an incredible athlete and I saw what kind of potential she had.
But Cyborg came out and she just owned her, and, so, I wasn’t
surprised to see Gina take a long leave of absence; and, still, she
hasn’t come back. She was supposed to, but she wasn’t able to make
it. But I don’t know what the future will hold for women’s MMA,
especially now. But I don’t think Gina won’t come back. But,
regardless of whether she comes back or not, I don’t really know
what the future holds for women’s MMA. There seems to be a lot of
people that want it to stick around. I don’t know what’s going to
happen now that Strikeforce is under new ownership.
Afromowitz: Yeah, I think she wanted a different deal, and I’m
sure, like any fighter or any star, she has people in her ear
telling her what she is worth. So, we’ll see what happens, but,
really, I don’t know how many opponents there are even out there
for her. This Ronda
Rousey girl is coming up, but she’s not ready for her yet, I
don’t think, with the number of fights anyway that she has on
paper. She could be a threat to Cyborg in the near future, but,
other than that, I don’t know who else is out there for Cyborg
right now. There is not as much depth, obviously, as there is in
the men’s division, but I think it could be maintained -- the
women’s divisions. I think, with the sport growing, there are more
and more women coming into it, so I think it’s something worth
building, to build it aggressively as you are with the men’s. I
wouldn’t just fold it.
Afromowitz: I hope that, in MMA, it might be tough to rebuild, but
as far as from like a family perspective and the way we operated, I
hope I can live that kind of life again at some point, sooner
rather than later. And, you know, just work the same way that I had
been. But it’s amazing how things can change overnight. I certainly
didn’t see this coming.