Trading Shots: If there was a UFC event on one corner and a World Cup game on the other ...

Illegal shots to the back of the head? Nope. That’s the U.S. men’s national team celebrating John Brooks’ eventual winning goal against Ghana in the 2014 World Cup.

In this week’s Trading Shots, MMAjunkie columnist Ben Fowlkes and former UFC/WEC fighter Danny Downes discuss the World Cup, the UFC’s international expansion, and what to do if a fight breaks out on the opposite corner from a soccer game.

Fowlkes: Danny, I don’t know about you, but I have been watching the crap out of the World Cup these past couple weeks (working from home rulez). In the sleepy little college town of Missoula, Mont., which is not normally known as a hotbed of soccer fandom, it’s tough to find a seat at many local watering holes when the U.S. men’s national team plays. Seems like the whole world kind of stops what it’s doing to watch this thing every four years, and that’s awesome.

It’s the kind of thing that makes you wonder, if two dudes were fighting on one corner, and there was a TV showing a World Cup game on the other corner, which would you watch? Does it matter who the dudes are, and which World Cup game it is (no offense, Ivory Coast)? And does the football fever that has gripped the U.S. make you think that UFC President Dana White’s oft-repeated claim about MMA becoming the biggest sport in the world is just totally insane, to the point of being hilarious?

Downes: I don’t know Ben, there are so many variables. Is Kimbo Slice on his backyard fight reunion tour? Do I have errands to run? Does the place showing the World Cup match have a high-quality draft list?

When it comes to soccer in the U.S., I feel like we have this conversation every four years. Everyone gets excited, buys a jersey and we tell ourselves that soccer has “arrived.” Then, once the World Cup ends, we ignore the sport for another four years. It’s a lot like the Summer Olympics. When was the last time you really cared about 200-meter freestyle? Who wants to use the metric system, anyway?

The claim that MMA could become the biggest sport in the world rests on the premise that we like violence. You don’t need your anthropology degree to see that a lot of the sports we enjoy have an element of physicality to them. As much fun as that 2009 Professional Darts Championship match between Tony O’Shea and Ted Hankey was, the PDC probably isn’t going to take the world by storm. Comparing MMA to soccer may sound ridiculous now, but MMA is still in its infancy. The global aspirations of MMA and the UFC have just started, and there’s still a lot of room for growth.

I know that people like to poke fun at Dana White’s view of MMA in the global landscape, but I think there’s a greater lesson to be learned from the naysayers. When it comes down to it, I don’t think you (and the MMA media at large) believe in the sport. You’ve covered it for years and you still think of it as a fad or a spectacle. The notion of MMA becoming the biggest sport in the world seems “insane” and “hilarious” because deep down you still think of it as human cockfighting.

Fowlkes: Wow, you couldn’t be more wrong. Like, it’s kind of impressive how wrong you are. Most MMA media members I know – myself included – would love for this to be the biggest sport in the world. For one thing, it’d be great to just not be treated like the weirdo step-children of sports media. I remember when I first started working for Sports Illustrated online, and I went into the New York office to meet my editor. As she introduced me around and told people that I’d be covering MMA, the emotion conveyed on their faces could best be described as pity. As in, “Hey, keep your head up. Do a good job with this cage fighting stuff, and you might get to cover college basketball one day.”

I hate college basketball. I hate pro basketball. In fact, I’m bored by most sports that do not involve a cage, some little leather gloves, and at least the possibility of a guillotine choke. If interest in this sport declines to the point that covering it is no longer a job, I’m screwed. The only job I’ve ever been halfway good at it or interested in is sports writer, and I really only care about one sport, which, when it’s good, is still the best and purest and most exciting one in the world to me. If there’s one thing someone like me should be very concerned with, it’s watching the sport descend into fad or spectacle as the UFC picks it up by the ankles to shake every last penny out.

But back to the World Cup, the global enthusiasm for it makes White’s claims about MMA’s global domination potential seem all the more unrealistic. You know what makes the World Cup such a big deal? The scale. Every country in the world puts the best team they can muster on that field, and since it only happens every four years, the bragging rights (or humiliating shame) are intense.

The UFC’s decision to pack the calendar with one event after another, sometimes two in a single day, featuring main events between guys who would have been lucky to get on a main card four years ago, that’s kind of the opposite approach, isn’t it? Do you really think the key to spreading the gospel of MMA is to just do more and more of it, until every mediocre fighter in the world has had a chance to compete in a Fight Pass featured prelim, and only the most hardcore and least employed fans can keep up with it all?

Downes: Wow, you couldn’t have misunderstood me more if you tried. Like, it’s kind of impressive how little you understood. Of course you want MMA to become the biggest sport in the world. That way you could afford to have snow imported to your fancy Missoula mansion in the summer time. I said that you don’t believe MMA is capable of ever getting there.

Major League Baseball’s season is comprised of 162 games. The National Football League only has a 16-game season. As a result, each NFL game has a certain level of importance missing from an individual MLB game. Therefore, through the process of inductive reasoning, the UFC should only have 16 events a year. Yes, scarcity can make things special, but you’re mixing more apples and oranges together than a smoothie bar. Like, it’s kind of impressive how many apples and oranges you can mix together.

Would you consider yourself a “hardcore” soccer fan? Probably not. You’re a casual fan who’s enjoying the World Cup right now. The UFC isn’t interested in creating a new generation of hardcore fans. It needs casual interest, and its method right now is trying to create that. In many ways, I think the UFC’s approach to growth is similar to that of news media. There’s been a movement toward hyper-local content, and the UFC is following suit. How do you create brand-new MMA fans in Australia? Is it by putting on a stacked card that airs at 2 in the morning? Or, is it by putting on a Fight Pass card with local talent at a reasonable hour?

Fowlkes: I guess it depends what you think of the Australian fans you’re catering to. Do you think they’d rather see a big fight between fighters who matter, or can you just toss any local drongo in there and expect them to think it’s all bonzer? The UFC seems to think the latter is just fine, but the international fans who write me emails and Twitter Mailbag questions on the regular tend to disagree. The Irish fans love them some Conor McGregor, but then again, they saw a lot of him as he was coming up. They want to know where Jon Jones is.

That’s the thing about my casual interest in the World Cup. I wouldn’t be into it if it were just American soccer players competing in prime time. We have that, or so I’m told, and I don’t watch it. I’d rather watch this Messi fellow at 2 a.m. than some mediocre local talent at dinner time.

As for your distinction between wanting MMA to be more than a spectacle and believing in it, Tinkerbell-style, I think we’re both missing the point a bit. The UFC wants MMA to be a global phenomenon because that would be hugely profitable – for the people who own the UFC. Fans and media want it because we think it’d be cool to see fighters from all over the world compete, but also because we really like this and we assume other people would too, if they’d only give it a chance. But if they give it a chance, and what they end up seeing is the UFC’s JV squad, what conclusions do we expect them to draw?

Downes: So you’re concluding to know what the majority of international fans want based on the people that send you emails and Twitter Mailbag questions? I had no idea your inbox was filled with millions of messages. It must be so hard to sift through all those comments.

We’ve talked before about how we feel like there needs to be a new generation of MMA stars. How are we supposed to find out who they might unless they have the chance? You’re acting like the guy who goes to a concert and only wants the band to play the greatest hits. Unfortunately, when it comes to sports, perception is reality. You call it the “JV squad.” That statement may be true in relation to the other talent on the roster, but it’s misguided in an absolute sense. Go watch events from five to 10 years ago. Now watch the prelim fighters of today. You can’t deny that the talent has improved. In every level of every discipline, this “JV squad” exceeds the fighters of yesterday.

You’re viewing MMA’s growth potential from the perspective of a guy that can name all the IFL teams and coaches. You compete in Brazilian jiu-jitsu and can differentiate between a mediocre triangle choke and a high-level one. You aren’t the demographic.

Look at these ratings for the most watched television shows during the second week of June. Besides the NBA Finals, it was two different “NCIS” shows and “The Big Bang Theory.” You aren’t the demographic there, either. But guess what? They’re the most popular shows on television. It may sting a little bit, but if the UFC becomes the biggest sport in the world, it won’t be because millions of Ben Fowlkeses are tuning in to watch. If two random dudes were fighting on a corner, I’d probably call the police. When two UFC fighters step into the Octagon, I call friends.