Trading Shots: Fowlkes and Downes debate UFC 167 and St-Pierre vs. Hendricks

With UFC 167 in the books, MMAjunkie’s resident fighter-turned-writer, Danny Downes, returns to team up with Ben Fowlkes for a look at Georges St-Pierre‘s controversial split decision victory over Johny Hendricks, and the ensuing aftermath.

Fowlkes: Danny, it’s a little after 5 a.m., and I’m currently enjoying the rich cultural history of the Las Vegas airport, so I’ll keep it simple to start us off this week and just ask you straight-up, who do you think won Saturday’s UFC 167 main event?

Downes: I had Hendricks winning 48-47. In my opinion he won rounds 1, 2 and 4. The round that seems to be the deciding factor (at least according to the judges) was the first. If you look at the numbers for that round, GSP and Hendricks appear to be even in terms of strikes landed and takedowns. All punches are not created equal, though. Hendricks’ shots had greater damage and effect. If you’re judging the round based on “effective striking,” I fail to see how you give that round to St-Pierre.

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what fans or whiny media types think of the decision. St-Pierre won and retained his title. He’s used to criticism by now, so I can’t imagine this will bother him much. What must really sting, though, is how Dana White reacted to the matter. As well as the “king of pay-per-view” draws, do you think he expected to be treated like that?

Fowlkes: That’s kind of what I was wondering (that and, when you wrote “whiny media types,” you didn’t mean me, right? Danny? Right?). Although GSP wasn’t present for the entirety of White’s press conference rant, and though White seemed to drastically change his tune after stepping outside the media room and actually talking to GSP for a few minutes before burying him in the press (might’ve been a good idea to do that first, just saying), surely he got wind of that whole “You owe us this fight” speech that White gave early on in the presser.

If I were St-Pierre, that would piss me off something fierce. This man has been the UFC’s most reliable star for the past six years. He doesn’t get into trouble, doesn’t say stupid stuff, or put the UFC in uncomfortable positions. As White admitted once he’d calmed down and talked to the man, this is the first time he’s really had a personal problem that affected his career. So why can’t we give him a damn vacation here? I mean, I get it. You can’t hold up the division forever. But wouldn’t it have been worth it to hear his side first before crapping all over him? Why does it seem like the UFC’s love of loyalty is so often a one-way street in moments like these?

Downes: First off, I definitely don’t consider you one of the whiny media types (if anything I’d put you in the smug camp). Second, I guess it’s refreshing to know that White doesn’t play favorites when it comes to criticism. It doesn’t matter if you’re a star like Jon Jones or Georges St-Pierre, the hammer will be dropped (sometimes prematurely). What caught my attention in the post fight rant was the idea that GSP owes the fans/organization/Hendricks something. He doesn’t owe them anything.

MMA made St-Pierre a wealthy superstar and provided him the every-hour-on-the-hour pampering that comes along with it, but he earned it. Even if you were to say that he has a responsibility to fans, that doesn’t mean he should be forced to fight if his heart isn’t in it. He’s under a tremendous amount of pressure. Sure, we can dismiss it as an even more extreme example of “first-world problems,” but he still has the right to decide if he wants to take a break. Would anyone really be angry at GSP for that? Why is it such a big deal?

Fowlkes: The cynical answer is, it’s a big deal because there’s serious money in a rematch. A slightly less cynical one is, the champ doesn’t get to just abscond with the belt because his girlfriend broke up with him and he’s sad now (or, you know, whatever GSP’s personal problem is, and hopefully it’s better/worse than that). But that’s what seemed crazy about White’s rant to me, was how willing he was to blast the guy before asking why he wants to take a break or for how long.

If GSP wants three years to go find himself in Tibet, OK, he might have to be stripped of the title. But if he wants to do a semester at sea and come back in nine months’ time, would that be so unreasonable? I don’t think so. If the UFC disagrees, let it take his belt away. But please, let’s not get all indignant and act like a man who just got his skull pounded on by one of the division’s heaviest hitters is being selfish or ungrateful by asking for some time off. I also got the sense he was going to say that no matter what the outcome. How much of the outrage do you think was misdirected anger at the decision, which we both agree should have gone the other way?

And, while we’re at it, just how bad a decision was this, anyway? Top five worst calls in MMA history? Top 10?

Downes: I know the people love top 10 lists, but I don’t know where to place this one on the all-time worst decisions list. Was it any more egregious than Frankie Edgar vs. Benson Henderson? I suppose Leonard Garcia vs. “Korean Zombie” I is the gold standard for bad judging, but there wasn’t a title on the line. Right now we’ll look back at UFC 167 as the judges losing a close decision, but I doubt it will really mean something in the long term. When was the last time you really thought long and hard about Lyoto Machida at UFC 104? What about Martin Kampmann losing a decision after beating Diego Sanchez as badly as Gilbert Melendez did?

The fact of the matter is that the decisions of three little judges don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world, Benny. Some day you’ll understand that. If this is the last time we see GSP in the octagon (which I doubt), it might be an interesting footnote, but that’s about it. People fight for a variety of reasons. Regardless of what they may be, we’d like to think that we have some type of value. I don’t know about you, but as UFC 167 relates to me right now, I’m starting to think that individual fighters don’t really matter that much to the big picture. Just look at Ben Askren. What power does he have to change his lot? What can GSP do to earn the benefit of the doubt? Aren’t they all just at the mercy of a promoter? What’s a fighter really worth?

Fowlkes: I should have known you’d find a way to work your buddy Ben Askren into this conversation. But you make a good point. If GSP – arguably the UFC employee of the decade – can show up to a press conference looking like a pack of mules just played soccer with his head and then have the UFC president act like he’s somehow shirking his duties by not immediately signing up to get jacked in the face again, that seems kind of insane to me.

The dude who is taking the punches is the only dude who should get to decide where and when and under what circumstances he does it. But with this situation, you can imagine how the public opinion backlash against GSP (less for what he did than for what two judges thought of it) might eventually be used to lure him back into the cage, possibly before he really wants to be there. But man, I hope it doesn’t go down like that.

Downes: Nick Diaz trash talked GSP into giving him a title shot, so maybe the masses can goad him into fighting Hendricks again. We love to point the finger at guys who overstay their welcome. There was all this hand-wringing and paternalism when Chuck Liddell wouldn’t hang up the gloves. But now GSP wants to take a break/hiatus/siesta – whatever you want to call it – and it’s too soon? Bob Sapp may be able to walk out there, tap in the first round and collect his paycheck, but most fighters aren’t wired that way. There’s too much pride on the line to disgrace yourself and sport.

Whatever St-Pierre decides to do, I hope it’s because he wants to do it. Even if his only motivation is to get those Canadian dollars (it’s all about the Sir Robert Bordens, baby), let it be his choice. Whether you like him or not, respect what he’s done and let him take as long as he needs. He may not have earned the decision last night, but he’s earned that much.

For complete coverage of UFC 167, stay tuned to the UFC Events section of the site.