Trading Shots: Downes and Fowlkes on fighters, sponsors and cold, hard cash

In this edition of Trading Shots, MMAjunkie columnist Ben Fowlkes and fighter-turned-writer Danny Downes discuss the economics of the undercard, particularly as some fighters struggle for sponsors while others decide to go without.

Fowlkes: OK, Danny. After a fun, if at times weird, fight card on FOX with Saturday’s UFC on FOX 9 event, I gotta ask, during your MMA career, did you ever forget your gear and have to send someone to the sporting goods store at the last minute? Also, how hard is it, really, to get some sponsor logos to throw on your butt? What do you make of Mac Danzig‘s anti-capitalist statement and/or Cody McKenzie‘s complete lack of concern for where his gym bag is?

Downes: This I’m-just-here-to-fight attitude is a throwback to the days of old, and it should have stayed there. Fighters of all levels, from top contenders to curtain-jerkers, need to realize that this is a business, and it feels like very few of them have business savvy. From the way they talk to media to the way they spend/save their money, fighters have to look at themselves as a small business, not a “warrior” or a “soldier.” With the Danzig issue, it’s hard to tell if this was a philosophical statement or just making something out of his own ineptitude. Maybe he couldn’t get any sponsors and tried to make the best of it. It’s like inviting people to a party, none of them show up, and you say, “Well, I didn’t want them to come anyway.” Maybe he did honestly want to make a statement, but you can’t pay your bills with moral victories. I don’t see the UFC instituting a robust 401(k) plan any time soon.

For me personally, I never had much time for sponsors once I reached the higher levels, and I regret that decision to this day. I had this hands-off approach and just assumed that my management was doing everything they could. I was grateful for anything. Many young fighters (myself included) get caught up in that happy-to-be-here mentality, and it doesn’t help them. “Greed is good,” doesn’t apply to just Wall Street. Fighters as a whole are much too passive with regards to the non-training elements of a career. Winning doesn’t solve everything. As the economic think tank Wu Tang Clan once opined, cash rules everything around me.

Fowlkes: I’m familiar with this think tank you refer to, and my sources tell me that they ain’t nothing to [fudge] with. Still, I can’t help but think about what Charles McCarthy told me recently about his experiences managing himself, and how he’s applied that to his new career managing other fighters. The way he put it, sponsorships and media responsibilities and all the other non-fighting parts of fighting are just distractions for fighters, and it doesn’t benefit them to get caught up in worrying about them. And while winning might not solve everything, losing usually does, at least in the sense that it solves the question of whether anyone will pay to slap a logo on your butt.

In a way, Danzig’s move seems kind of genius. If he’d had Dynamic Fastening Person Finder or whatever the hell everybody else had on his shorts, no way we’d take notice. Instead, here we are talking about him. If only he’d won, he might really be a topic of conversation today. What concerns me is that it seems like sponsors used to be a reliable way for fighters to double their purse. Now I’m hearing sob stories from managers about $500 paydays that are barely worth picking up the phone for. Dana White says the UFC is “working on it,” and also says it’s due to the poor economy, which is kind of a funny thing to bring up right as the UFC ups the pay-per-view price for its next event and prepares to launch a subscription-based “digital network.”

But my question to you is, are you really sitting around now wishing you’d stressed more over how to squeeze every last cent out of your sponsors? Because it seems like that added worry doesn’t result in enough money to make it worth it in the long run.

Downes: That’s certainly true. It doesn’t do you much good to spend hours hustling just for an extra thousand bucks. I also agree with McCarthy that all the non-fighting elements can be distracting and detract from your primary goal. Having said that, though, I still think that fighters do themselves a disservice by only worrying about what happens inside the cage. We don’t need a few dozen extra Chael Sonnens running around stealing wrestling gimmicks, but at least he sold himself. Talking to media can be tedious, but it’s in a fighter’s best interest to do so. Why does the UFC care if Alp Ozkilic has extra money?

When I decided to transition to writing, one piece of advice I received was to write as much as I could. Reach out to any publication or website that would listen and take any assignment they would offer. Even if it’s for $50, do it so you get more experience, and (hopefully) bigger and better assignments will come. Why shouldn’t that advice apply to fighters, just because talking to the media can be tedious or boring? Wouldn’t you agree that fighters need to market themselves better? How would you recommend they get all that T-shirt money?

Fowlkes: Of course I’m going to say that fighters should do more media and do it better, because that makes my job easier. At the same time, I understand that a) I get paid to write the stories, while they don’t get paid to do the interviews that allow me to write them, and b) that marketing stuff is harder than it sounds.

Take Demetrious Johnson, for instance. Clearly, he’s an awesome fighter. People complained that he didn’t finish, so he subbed John Moraga. They said he didn’t have power, then he knocked out Joseph Benavidez. Still though, I don’t see him becoming a pay-per-view draw overnight, and I don’t believe it’s because he’s too small to ride the rides at Disneyland. He’s just missing that certain something, personality-wise, that makes people want to tune in. You see a headline with a Sonnen (or, for that matter, Urijah Faber or Donald Cerrone or Jon Jones or Ronda Rousey) interview teaser, and you’re probably clicking that link. “Mighty Mouse” just isn’t that guy, and I’m not sure he ever will be.

And maybe that’s fine. I’d rather see a fighter be the boring person he is than try and fail to be an interesting person he isn’t. Then again, I’m not the one who has to worry about building a nest egg in an industry in which 35 is considered over the hill.

Downes: Every fighter can’t be champion, and every fighter can’t become a draw. Johnson is a perfect example of how, despite a guy’s best efforts, he still can’t achieve that superstar status. Is “Mighty Mouse” making anywhere near the money of some of the other UFC champions? I would assume not. He’s not the fighter I’m concerned about, though. Some call them gatekeepers, others mid-carders; they are the fighters who I think are missing out. MMA may not be a mainstream sport yet, but it definitely has a much larger profile than it did even a few years ago. This isn’t the place to discuss trickle-down economics (I’ll save that for the Wu Tang Clan), but this increased attention has done very little to help the bulk of MMA fighters.

Does fighter pay mean anything for the viewing audience? No, but neither does traumatic brain injury, and we seem to talk about that a lot. Fighters may be a part of a larger organization, but they can’t expect the UFC to do everything for them. It may seem counterintuitive, but the majority of fighters I’ve trained and worked with are humble, reserved people. They don’t like drawing attention to themselves. Even though it may be a positive attribute in life, I really think they’re doing a disservice to their long term interests. The meek may inherit the Earth, but tell that to their bill collectors.

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(Pictured: Mac Danzig)